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DR P1:Det judæo-kristne tankegods og klimadebatten

 

Filosofi, Etik & Religion

-Martin-
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Dato: 15/6 2014 12:33 | Indlæg redigeret den: 15/6 2014 12:34

Adjunkt Jens-André Herbener fortæller om sammenhænge mellem klimakrise og den kirkelige forståelse af Bibelen.

Hør programmet her:

http://www.dr.dk/arkivP1/Religionsrapport/udsendelser/2013/06/10103154.htm

og videre:

(...) jeg mener, de (monoteistiske religioner, red.) faktisk har et medansvar for klimakrisen. Her tænker jeg dels på deres menneskesyn, deres særlige antropocentrisme, som handler om at mennesket spiller en meget central rolle - ofte på bekostning af dyrene.

Hør programmet her:

http://www.dr.dk/radio/ondemand/p1/religionsrapport-74#!/

Jens-André Herbener argumenterer for, at den judæo-kristne traditions antropocentrisme, som har rod i Mellemøstens tidligste agerbrugskulturer og det natursyn, der ligger i forlængelse heraf og videreførtes med industrialiseringen i slutningen af 1700-tallet, har et medansvar for den globale klimakrise.
Earthling 2
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Dato: 21/6 2014 17:28 | Indlæg redigeret den: 26/6 2014 12:36

Haven´t lisened to the programme, just read the resumé.

An interesting and important topic.

I don´t agree with the version of Christianity presented by Jens-André Herbener. In my view, it offers a very limited understanding. Sure, the human being is presented in the Judo-Christian tradition as the image-of-God, but s/he is also presented as one who is to "take care of" creation, as one who is given the responsibility of stewartship and who will be held to account. S/he is placed within creation, part of it, as well as having responsibility and power. As Christians, we are called to exercise power in service and humility, like Chirst did when he washed the feet of his disciples.

Again, the Biblical worldview speaks of the whole of creation: of animals having souls (nemesh); of creation praising God (eg. the Psalms); of creation groaning in one great act of giving birth; of creation being redeemed. It speaks of jubilee years which meant allowing land to lie fallow at regular intervals, of rescuing animals on the Sabbath, etc... Also, the context of the Bible is that of a nomad, agricultural culture, one where people, generally speaking, lived in harmony with nature, much like the nomads of today, or even farmers of some fifty years ago.

Again, we have the Early Church Fathers and later, Thomas Aquinas, speaking of nature as the first book about God, of three types of soul: plant, animal and human. There is also the Benedictine tradition which puts a strong emphasis on stewartship and the Franciscan tradition which puts a strong emphasis on the sister/brotherhood of all creation and of creation giving praise to God by its very being.

In fact, nature IS seen as holy and sacramental. It is seen as good, even very good.

That being the case, we have a fundamental responsability to nurture and protect creation, not just for our sakes, or for the sake of future generations as put forward by Elisabeth Dons Christensen, but for the sake of nature itself.

In this, I totally agree with Jens-André Herbener when he says love of neighbour includes human, animals, nature, everything. I would also say that love of God includes humans, animals, nature. We simply can´t claim to love God, if we don´t honour his creation. It is true to say that many Christians have forgotten or ignore this... and that while the environment is being taken on board, animals are often an \"invisible\" entity or they are seen a resource rather than beings in their own right. In my opinion, the Church is failing to give an active enough lead in addressing issues like factory-farming, animal cruelty, etc.

That said, there have been many recent documents and books in recent times, and there is definitely a growing awareness. There are also very concrete actions (I have many examples in mind), but yes, much more needs to be done...

We should be forerunners, not stragglers...




Some examples of recent material:

‘The fragile world’: Church teaching on ecology before and by Pope Francis - Thinking Faith
http://www.thinkingfaith.org/articles/%E2%80%98-fragile-world%E2%80%99-church-teaching-ecology-and-pope-francis


Passenger pigeons and polar bears: the ethics of global warming - Thinking Faith
https://www.thinkingfaith.org/node/1560


How Green Was the \'Green Pope\'? - National Geographic
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/02/130228-environmental-pope-green-efficiency-vatican-city/


Peace with God the Creator, Peace with All of Creation - World Peace Day Message
Resumé: http://poster.4teachers.org/view/poster.php?poster_id=412640
Full message: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/messages/peace/documents/hf_jp-ii_mes_19891208_xxiii-world-day-for-peace_en.html


Book: For Love of Animals - Christian Ethics, Consistant Action - Charles Camosy
http://www.amazon.com/For-Love-Animals-Christian-Consistent/dp/1616366621



EDIT:
EVANGELIUM VITAE - Culture of Life
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae_en.html

To Care for the Earth: A Call to a New Theology - Séan McDonagh (book)
http://www.amazon.com/To-Care-Earth-Call-Theology/dp/0939680424

Green Church – Sustaining Creation: Caring for creation is a key Christian task.
http://green.wa.uca.org.au/?page_id=955



Earthling 2
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Dato: 26/6 2014 12:34 | Indlæg redigeret den: 26/6 2014 13:40

Just listened to this excellent talk on podcast by Fr. Séan McDonagh, a leading campaigner on climate change and bio-diversity, in which he explains why the Church should be in the forefront of the struggle to protect our natural environment.

Ecological Conversion – Fr Sean McDonagh (24.mins; podcast made available from Vatican Radio)
http://www.kandle.ie/ecological-conversion/



Sean McDonagh writes and lectures on the relationship between faith, justice and ecology. He became involved in tackling global poverty and environmental degradation during his missionary years in the Philippines. His research and writings have since extended to species extinction, fresh water depletion, the patenting of life forms by the corporate world, and making a connection between global warming and poverty.

In his more recent writing and lectures Sean declares that global warming is the biggest issue facing agriculture over the next 50 years. For him it is a moral and religious issue because taking no action will mean suffering and death. He calls politicians to stop bowing to vested interests. He urges the churches to join the debates with more commitment. Unless attitudes change the well-being of millions will be undermined and future generations will be condemned to live on an inhospitable planet.

On the relationship between faith, justice and ecology, he strongly urges the church to take up John Paul II's challenge to undergo 'ecological conversion. As he sketches the theological and social justice aspects of such issues, he keeps advocating that environmental justice be a core Catholic activity. He calls church people to play a central role in raising awareness on the moral aspects of global warming, holding that while climate change is a technical, scientific and economic issue, ultimately it is a moral one.



A resumé of the subject matter of his books here:
- Care for the Earth (1986)***
- The Greening of the Church (1990)
- Passion for the Earth (1994)
- Greening the Christian Millennium (1999)
- Why are We Deaf to the Cry of the Earth? (2001)
- Patenting Life? Stop! (2003)
- Dying for Water (2003)
- The Death of Life : The Horror of Extinction (2004)
- Climate Change : The Challenge to Us All (2006)
http://www.lauristonhall.org.uk/centrearchive/index_files/mcdonagh.htm





Another person worth mentioning in Fr. Thomas Berry. He has also written numerous books.
Among advocates of deep ecology and "ecospirituality" he is famous for proposing that a deep understanding of the history and functioning of the evolving universe is a necessary inspiration and guide for our own effective functioning as individuals and as a species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Berry
http://www.thomasberry.org/


His books:
- The Sacred Universe: Earth, Spirituality, and Religion in the 21st Century (2009)
- The Christian Future and the Fate of Earth (2009)***
- Evening Thoughts: Reflecting on Earth as Sacred Community (2006)
- The Great Work (2002)
- The Universe Story - with Brian Swimme (1994)
- Dream of the Earth (1988)
http://www.thomasberry.org/Books/





-Martin-
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Dato: 27/6 2014 17:11

@ Earthling,

Thank you for your input!

I partly agree with Jens-André Herbener that the Judeo-Christian tradition is largely anthropocentric. The narratives, the poetry and the ethics mostly concern interhuman and human/divine relations.

According to Genesis 1:26, man is given a special commission to rule (radah) over all of creation, but Genesis 2:15 expands the perspective so that the authorisation includes to serve or labour (abad) and to keep, watch or preserve (shamar). The first creation myth (which is poetry) is mostly concerned with the physical world, but I'd argue that the second creation myth (narrative), and pretty much the rest of the Bible, is largely anthropocentric/deocentric and not really that preoccupied with nature, unless the point is to demonstrate divine preponderance.

But of course, as your examples show, there's a lot more to it than what we can read in the first few chapters of Genesis.

What I find peculiar about Herbeners argument is that the Judeo-Christian tradition should somehow be responsible for the consequences of industrialisation when very often Christianity is accused of having systematically obstructed scientific and technological development. This time, however, industrialisation, consumerism, pollution, climate changes and exploitation of natural resources also happen to be Christianity's fault! That's rather refreshing.

Now, I suppose most people would intuitively agree that it's probably more reasonable to blame modernity, and many do blame capitalism. By 'modernity' I'm referring to the 'modern', pragmatic and completely desacralised cosmology where nature is perceived primarily as a resource, as opposed to the pre-modern, traditional, hiararchical and religious worldview where nature is either perceived as sacred or as some sort of divine arrangement. In that case modernity is the main culprit.

What I'd rather suggest, if you'd ask me, is that we should stop playing this ideological blame game and look for values, strategies and solutions within both philosophical frameworks, because either way, whatever way one wishes to express it, nature is of immeasurable value, and our conduct and administration is of equally tremendous importance.
Earthling 2
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Dato: 30/6 2014 18:27 | Indlæg redigeret den: 30/6 2014 20:48

It is anthrocentric in as much as it does concern interhuman and divine relations. However, I would see it as also concerning divine-creation relations and human-creation relations.

God and Man (every human) - Man and Woman – Man and Creation – Creation and God

Broken realtionships have a ripple effect. Already in Genesis 1 animals have their own inherent value before humans come along and humans are given a plant-based diet. In Genesis 2, the emphasis is on communion and caring, as you correctly point out. In Gen 3, we see that the broken relationships between man and woman and between humans and God also effects the relationship with animals. Skins are mentioned...

Genesis 9 points out that the New Covenant was made with both humans and animals. It was never revoked. It is also clear that both humans and animals will be held accountable for every drop of blood spilled. Likewise, we are given the Beatific Vision - the Peacable Kingdom (Isaiah 11), Noah and Daniel living on vegetarian diets, Jesus throwing people out of the Temple for exploiting the temple, the poor and animals, the injunction in Acts against eating meat with blood in it, and the injunction from Paul against being a stumbling-block through what we eat...

I think one good reason the Judeo-Christian tradition seems more concerned with human and the divine relations is that we are supposedly the ones who have a higher degree of consciousness, moral awareness and greater power. This alone makes us more responsible for our actions and more accountable. And more in need of redemption for our evil cock-ups...

It´s also worth remembering that God-incarnated entered the world, ie. creation and took on its condition. It´s not either/or.

Still, it´s a large topic. I don´t want to get bogged down in it here...




What I find peculiar about Herbeners argument is that the Judeo-Christian tradition should somehow be responsible for the consequences of industrialisation when very often Christianity is accused of having systematically obstructed scientific and technological development. This time, however, industrialisation, consumerism, pollution, climate changes and exploitation of natural resources also happen to be Christianity's fault!

Just like Nero! Rome is burning. Blame the Christians!!! ;)

Yes, I found that rather stupid and annoying. Still, I have come across it before, the whole idea of blaming all the ills of modernity on Christianity. Speciesism is another one...


Charles Camosy takes on that topic well in his book, "For Love of Animals" (2013)



http://www.amazon.com/For-Love-Animals-Christian-Consistent/dp/1616366621



One of the things Camosy points out is that speciesism has been around since the dawn of man: man was initially the hunted, then he became the hunter... simply because he found he could. Raw power. It´s evolutionary. He also points out the wide scope for non-speciesism in Judeo-Christian literature, eg,. angels; Christian theology about receiving possible aliens and the possibility of other worlds - already under discussion 500 years ago (!); the characters in the writings of C.S.Lewis, Tolkien, etc. The other thing he points out is that the Industrial Revolution was/is primarily driven by greed and consumerism. Again, man found out that he could control and exploit nature so he did, for his own gain, and because he had the power to do so. Raw power. This was greatly aided by Descartes, a child of the so called "Enlightenment". He perceived animals as machines who didn´t feel pain. A whole new departure... That world view has much to do with factory farming today.

Camosy has a great deal to say about the demands of justice, the modern gods of pleasure, consumerism and individualism, about gluttony, greed and co-operating with evil, all of which he sees as being at the heart of our present predicament. He offers a clear challenge to many (not least Christians!), and throws light on an alternate action, a Christian response to same.

You can read more of what he has to say here in this short article-interview. Recommended! :)
Short Interview with Charles Camosy - Catholic Ecology
http://catholicecology.net/blog/books-charlie-camosys-love-animals-christian-ethics-consistent-action



Finally, I absolutely agree with your closing remark:

we should stop playing this ideological blame game and look for values, strategies and solutions within both philosophical frameworks, because either way, whatever way one wishes to express it, nature is of immeasurable value, and our conduct and administration is of equally tremendous importance.





Reborn
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Dato: 1/7 2014 02:30 | Indlæg redigeret den: 1/7 2014 02:32

The followers of God have learned to be simple. They have no dreams that need defense against the truth. They do not try to make themselves. Their joy comes from their understanding Who created them. And does what God created need defense?

No one can become an advanced follower of God until he fully understands that defenses are but foolish guardians of mad illusions. The more grotesque the dream, the fiercer and more powerful its defenses seem to be. Yet when the follower of God finally agrees to look past them, he finds that nothing was there.

Slowly at first he lets himself be undeceived. But he learns faster as truth increases. It is not danger that comes when defenses are laid down. It is safety. It is peace. It is joy. And it is God.

<3

-acim
-Martin-
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Dato: 1/7 2014 14:56

Earthling,

Thanks for the link! I basically agree with much of Camosy's exegesis, especially regarding dominion. But maybe I'd rather interpret the first parts of Genesis as an aetiology that attempts to explain the irreversible movement away from a mythical, non-violent 'Golden Age' where God and man were close, even physically, and everything was just honky dory.

However, this is perhaps a bit pedantic and hardly relevant for our discussion, and the issue of dominion is, I think, far more interesting because this is the ambiguous part: One can argue that we can do whatever we fancy with nature, or one can stress responsibility (or various idiosyncratic 'in-between' combinations).

What I find interesting is that one can do exactly the same from a modernistic point of view. If we define modernity[1] as:

1. A pragmatic, desacralised approach to nature which is essentially perceived as a resource.
2. A segregation of the private and the public sphere.
3. A society administered by secular, democratic principles of equality and reason.
4. A process of emancipation from top-down religious, ideological and hierarchical authority.

Here one can easily identify the 'traps' of modernity: If/when modernity becomes an ideology in its own right; modernism, the process of emancipation ends up enslaving society. If/when individual autonomy reveals itself to be nothing but uncritical self-realisation through consumption, and if pragmatism ends up being an autonomous 'closed' system - an unregulated and largely automated algorithm of capitalism/the economy of perpetual growth, then the process of social emancipation is actually self-enslaving and potentially disastrous on more than one level.

My point is, however, that, like the Judeo-Christian notion of dominion, modernity is perhaps as much the solution as it is the problem. If modernity can steer clear of its own reductionistic/fundamentalistic temptations and stay true to itself, the way of thinking indeed has the potential to remain pragmatic yet responsible, remain respectful to individuals and minorities, remain based on reason and equality, and reamin truly liberating.




[1] ”Hvad er modernitet?”, in: Ole Høiris & Thomas Ledet eds., Modernitetens Verden – Tiden, videnskab, historien og kunst, Aarhus Universitetsforlag, 33-40






Earthling 2
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Dato: 19/7 2014 17:47

Something to look forward to... :)

Encyclical on the Ecology for start of 2015
http://www.romereports.com/pg157684-pope-francis-prepares-encyclical-on-the-ecology-for-start-of-2015-en


(Document referred t in the video clip)
Franciscans for Ecology - Introduction to Ecology Booklet III
http://francis35.org/english/introduction-ecology-booklet-iii/




tat
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Dato: 20/7 2014 01:48

der er vel lidt om snakken.!-

det kan dog undre at dyreofringer ikke indgår i kristendommen, det gamle testamentes gud, var i lighed med romerske guder, en hård herrer der både krævede dyre og menneskeofringer, man har bibeholdt dyreofringer både i Islam og i Jødedommen.-

både Jerusalem, Mekka og Medina, svømmer hvert år i blodet fra mange milioner, får og lam der under rystende forhold er sejlet tværds over stillehavet fra Australien og new zealand, traditionen kræver at ofredyrene ikke har spist, så de får ikke føde under transporten.-



-Martin-
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Dato: 21/7 2014 17:51

Hi Earthling,

I'll take a look at the stuff you've posted links to later on!
Cheers!

:)
Earthling 2
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Område: Andet
Dato: 21/7 2014 21:19 | Indlæg redigeret den: 22/7 2014 11:23

No rush, Martin... You have until early 2015! ;)





@ tat
det kan dog undre at dyreofringer ikke indgår i kristendommen, det gamle testamentes gud, var i lighed med romerske guder, en hård herrer der både krævede dyre og menneskeofringer, man har bibeholdt dyreofringer både i Islam og i Jødedommen.-

Which OT god? Several are mentioned, particularly in the early books: Baal... Moleck... Ashtoreth... YHWH... Elohim...
http://www.redlandsdailyfacts.com/social-affairs/20070111/baal-ashtoreth-and-molech-gods-old-testament-rivals

I don´t see how it should follow that because there was animal sacrifice in the OT, it should be found in the NT. There are many things in the OT which are not to be found in the NT, or which have been modified or have evolved as understanding developed.

The Israelites of the OT differed from their neighbours in that as their understanding of God (as opposed to gods) evolved, they did not offer human sacrifice and where it sneaked in, it was strongly condemned. By the time we get to the Psalms and the Prophets (eg. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Amos, Micah...), we see animal sacrifce being roundly condemned. The people are told that mercy is required, not sacrifice. They are also told to look after the foreigner, the widow and the orphan, in other words: the poor, the vulnerable and the powerless.

When we come to the New Testmament, we see Jesus angrily driving those selling animals for sacrifice out of the temple. They were desecrating it by their lust for profit, and wanton exploitation of the poor and animals. Jesus is only on record as eating fish, the food of the poor and a rare source of protein in that region. Even at the Passover, he is only recorded as eating bread and drinking wine, so we can´t be sure he had lamb. He was the Lamb, and begins a whole new tradition: a sacred meal centred on bread (wheat) and wine (grapes)!

He also foretold the downfall of Jerusalem. This happened some 70 years later. The temple was destroyed and never re-built. With that, Judaism re-organized itself, and animal sacrifice was no longer part of its tradition, unless you want to include the passover lamb (kosher) each year.

Animal sacrifice was simply never part of Christianity nor was their any reason why it should be. The modern equivalent of sacrificing animals on the idolatrous altars of greed, pleasure, profit and consumerism has no part in Christianty. If anything, Christians should be actively seeking and showing mercy, and fighting for the poor, the vulnerable and the powerless, animals included! :)