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Hvad er der galt med ateisme?

 

Filosofi, Etik & Religion

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Ka-ching
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Dato: 11/12 2012 19:21 | Indlæg redigeret den: 11/12 2012 19:21

Den foreløbige konklusion som jeg er kommet frem til er at der er ikke noget galt med ateisme, men hvis en meget stærk tro på at der ikke eksisterer en gud bliver kombineret med fx den marxistiske/kommunistiske ideologi så har man en sprængfarlig cocktail. Lyder det fornuftigt?
Aros
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Dato: 11/12 2012 21:27 | Indlæg redigeret den: 11/12 2012 21:38

Det du har skrevet i de sidste par tråde Earthling, kan jeg kun udelukkende se som en kritik af kommunisme, hvilket jeg iøvrigt er helt enig med dig i, jeg er selv dybt antikommunistisk, så jeg kan ikke rigtigt se hvordan stalins forbrydelser har noget med mig at gøre. Ud fra din \"logik\" kan man også sige at fordi det danske parti kristendemokraterne er kristne, så er alle kristne kristendemokrater. Men hvis det var rigtigt gik det nok ikke partiet så skidt.

Ka-ching, du kunne også bare ganske enkelt konkludere at den marxistiske/kommunistiske ideologi er sprængfarlig. Det farlige i kommunisme er den grundlæggende tro på at det enkelte endivid ikke tæller, men skal leve for staten. At det er godt at ofre den enkelte for flertallet. Hvis man studerer de principper der ligger bag kommunisme, er det noget nært den mest frastødende politiske filosofi der nogensinde er frembragt. Kommunismen står bag flere dødsfald end selv nazismen. Iøvrigt var de fleste nazister katolikker, men her kommer Earthling sjovt nok til lidt andre konklusioner end hun gør angående ateister og kommunisme.

Nå men her er ihvertfald et par ateisters mening om kommunisme:











Jeg fik iøvrigt besøg af jehovas vidner idag, men de fik hurtigt lov til at gå igen, jeg havde nemlig ikke tid til at overbevise dem om den komplekse filosofi der ligger i ikke at tro på gud og så kunne jeg heller ikke lige finde de hellige ateistiske skrifter ;-)

Her er den virkelige rod til al ondskab og vold:




Over and out
Linse
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Dato: 11/12 2012 22:23

Jeg synes ikke man kan sige at der er noget galt med ateisme som sådan. Det eneste problem er hvis det nærmest gør folk til nihilister og apatiske og får dem til at miste håbet, fordi alt virker meningsløst.... For man har brug for håb for at (over)leve. Men hvis folk selv er glade for deres tro, så er det jo fint nok.
Earthling
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Dato: 11/12 2012 23:07 | Indlæg redigeret den: 11/12 2012 23:32

John,
Who mentioned his moustache?!

That was said in humour. You seem to have lost yours ;)

Anyway, tell that to the historians...

was of course referring to your claim that Stalin´s evil is not linked to his atheism.


Again, you didn't understand what I said at all. I didn't say that no crimes were committed by atheists. I said that their crimes have no relation to their atheism.

Of course I understand you. I did not say you said that no crimes were committed by atheists. I am saying you´re wrong when you say that their crimes had no relation to their atheism. I am speaking in the context of state athesim.

Re-read the quotes
State atheism is the official promotion of atheism by a government, sometimes combined with active suppression of religious freedom and practice...


The League of Militant Atheists... propagated atheism and scientific achievements, conducted 'individual work' (a method of sending atheist tutors to meet with individual believers to convince them of atheism, which could be followed up with public harassment if they failed to comply) with religious people, prepared propagandists and atheistic campaigners, published anti-religious scientific literature and periodicals, organized museums and exhibitions, conducted scientific research in the field of atheism and critics of religion... The League was a "nominally independent organization established by the Communist Party to promote atheism... it led a concerted effort telling Soviet citizens that religious beliefs and practices were "wrong" and "harmful", and that "good" citizens ought to embrace a scientific, atheistic worldview.



Atheism disbelieves or argues against (depending on the type of atheism) the possibility that man is made in the image of God. It also disbelieves or argues against (depending on the type of atheism) the possibility of a higher moral order and future accountability. It is not pleasant to admit it but this lies at the very heart of what these atheistic marxists believed: that man, the individual, was of no account and that they were accountable to no one but themselves. It enabled them to completely disregard the individual and to carry out the greatest attrocities against him/her in pursuit of their atheistic goals.

These atheists destroyed schools, hospitals, universities, churches in the pursuit of the agenda above. They imprisoned people in vast numbers and often tortured them brutally in an attempt to force them to embrace atheism. They sent them to gulags and psychiatric hospitals when they could not break them. They killed them outright. Our own sisters were amongst those people.

How you can say there is no connection between the crimes carried out by these atheists and their atheism is beyond me.



Your last three paragraphs are irrelevant. Nowhere do I say that if all marxists were atheists, it means that all atheists are marxists. Again, nowhere do I infer that all atheists are evil by association because some atheists were/are evil. That is your logic, John, the way you judge religion and believers. I have been at pains throughout this thread to specifically point out that I was talking about SOME atheists and SOME atheistic developments. I consider it a serious weakness and a serious cause for concern.

The way I see it, SOME atheists make an ideology out of atheism, make some aspect of it an end in itself and go to extreme lengths to try and impose that ideology on others. I do NOT say that all athiests do that, nor would I. I would also say that some people of faith make an ideology out of their religion, make some aspect of it an end in itself and go to extreme lengths to impose it on others. I do NOT say all people of faith do that. That is the fundamental difference between us. You generalize and tar everyone with the same brush regardless. And now you seem to saying I do that with atheists. I don´t. Nor would I.

You are seriously logically retarded.

Why you have to be rude and defensive is beyond me... It doesn´t become you ;)





Earthling
Forum-indlæg: 1079
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Dato: 11/12 2012 23:26 | Indlæg redigeret den: 11/12 2012 23:33

Aros
Iøvrigt var de fleste nazister katolikker, men her kommer Earthling sjovt nok til lidt andre konklusioner end hun gør angående ateister og kommunisme.

Actually, that is not true. Stastically speaking, it seems there were far less supporters of Nazism to be found in the Catholic regions of Germany than there were to be found in the Protestant regions.

Anyway, it´s off topic. And we had the Nazi discussion already ;)
http://vegetarkontakt.dk/?-er-det-ok-at-vaere-nazist=108951&side=1

Thanks for posting the Roots of Violence video. Like! :)

Will check the others out later.
Jeff
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Denne bruger har i år '14 doneret penge til at holde Vegetarkontakt.dk kørende.
Dato: 12/12 2012 07:05 | Indlæg redigeret den: 17/12 2012 09:04

Okay, let's just try a thought experiment with some of the points in your last post. I will just require a tiny bit of mathematical thinking.

Let's say, for the sake of this thought experiment, that the influence of belief/non-belief comes in two kinds.

One is the way a belief/nonbelief sets the stage in some way for evil. For instance, the way you argue atheism operates within certain totalitarian machines, but also the way religion was the substrate of the conquest of the New World, etc. (To be clear, I do not think you have a good understanding of the way belief/nonbelief work in totalitarian governments and there are shelves of books on how the activation of cults plays a role, including in modern North Korea)

Now, let's say that we just agree on something (outrageous) and state that the amount of evil done by unbelief in these cases is actually no less than evil done by belief - of course, history will show us otherwise, but for the sake of this experiment let's imagine that all through time there were all these evil atheist regimes sprouting up alongside all the evil divine rulers. We just need to agree in the following equation: A=R, which means the evil of atheist substrate (A) is equal to the evil of religious substrate (R).

Now, let's examine the other kind of influence: the direct commandments of atheism or religion per se. Here we are concerned with witch burning, throwing acid on girls' faces, suicide bombings, beheadings for blasphemy, the oppression of women, etc., all those things that come from the interpretation of doctrine and proclamations of belief/nonbelief - where that version of belief/nonbelief directly tells individuals what to do.

Let's add this to our equation such that we must find the relation of A + e to R + f, where e and f might stand for "extremists" and "fanatics" just for fun.

I am still waiting very patiently for over a week for someone to show a shred of evidence about the variable e above taking any significant form. We can fill pages of this websites for f in its everyday manisfestations.

Therefore, I assert that A + e < R + f, the total of atheist evil in these two kinds is much less than the total religious evil, such that the ratio of evil in this equation, that is the proportion of total atheist evil to total religious evil, (A + e) / (R + f), converges on insignificant.

All you have to do is come up with some evidence for e above. I have already let you make A equal to R, despite the absurdity of that proposition.


The thought experiment:

Based on these things above, if you had 2 buttons that you could choose from, and you could only push 1, such that pushing it would reduce the evil in the world by the total amount due to either atheism or religion as calculated above, which would you choose?

(Tinkering with the equations is not allowed, the thought experiment is described in its entirety as it is)

Finally, you act as if there are all these individuals going around actively proclaiming "atheism" 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I would remind you that there are over 400,000 priests in the Roman Catholic church alone. I don't think I need to continue anymore to demonstrate how utterly absurdly out of proportion any claims are about the "evangalizing of atheism". Ludicrous...
Aros
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Dato: 12/12 2012 07:45 | Indlæg redigeret den: 12/12 2012 08:00

Fair nok, der var også mange nazister der var protestanter. Det er dog stadig kristendom, så i denne sammenhæng, og i forhold til den sammenligning du lavede, gør det ikke den store forskel. Du skelner jo heller ikke imellem forskellige ateister og kommunisme.
Ja det er lidt off topic, men det er hele tråden sådan set, fordi for overhovedet at debattere det, er man nød til at gøre ateisme til noget den ikke er, hvilket de fleste da også gør. F.eks:

Linse: Jeg synes ikke man kan sige at der er noget galt med ateisme som sådan. Det eneste problem er hvis det nærmest gør folk til nihilister og apatiske og får dem til at miste håbet, fordi alt virker meningsløst.... For man har brug for håb for at (over)leve. Men hvis folk selv er glade for deres tro, så er det jo fint nok.

Glade for deres tro?. Hvilken tro? Det kan da ikke være en tro at lade være med at tro. Hold nu op, det kan da ikke være så svært at forstå. VI kalder det jo heller ikke en sport at man lader være med at spille tennis. Det er heller ikke en religiøs praksis at jeg ikke går i kirke om søndagen. Angående Nihilisme, har bl.a filosoffen Nietzsche skrevet en del imod nihilisme, og han var ateist. At være ateist er ikke lig med at man ikke har nogen værdier, moral, eller filosofi. Vi har bare ikke et fælles livssyn som f.eks kristne har. Nogle ateister er politisk set ventreorienterede andre er højreorienterede. Personligt er mit livssyn ikke et der kommer fra et enkelt bestemt system. Jeg er påvirket af mange forskellige filosoffer, forfattere, psykologer og andre. Bl.a Ayn rand, Nathaniel branden, Alice miller, george orwel, Aristoles og andre. For mig er livet bestemt ikke meningløs. For mig er det måske netop endnu mere værdifuldt, fordi det er så kort, og fordi jeg tror der kun er dettte ene liv, og ikke noget efterliv om der så er tale om genfødsel eller troen på en himmel. For mig er formålet med livet at leve fuldt ud, og få så meget ud af livet som muligt, at gøre alt for at blive så glad og lykkelig som muligt, og nyde at man er så heldig at eksistere. Da jeg ved vi kun har dette ene liv, og at det er så kort, er det også vigtigt for mig at sikre at jeg ikke gør sådan at andre må lide i dette korte liv pga mig. Derfor gør jeg heller ikke andre fortræd.

Earthling, du har stadig kun kommet med eksempler på såkaldt stats ateisme i sammenhæng med kommunistiske stater. Det er ikke lykkedes dig at løsrive en regerings undertrykkelse af religiøse fra kommunisme.Ordet stats ateisme giver derfor ikke engang mening. Det ville være som i stedet for at sige nazisme, så at kalde det stats kristendom. Om så hele verden var ateister og en flok kommunistiske massemordere, har det stadig intet med mig at gøre da jeg ikke er kommunist. Det kræver sådan set bare en enkelt ateist der ikke er kommunist, for at man ikke kan sige at der er en sammenhæng imellem kommunisme og ateisme. Som Ayn rand siger meget godt, er kommunister også stadig mystikere. Hvor religiøse dyrker en åndelig eller spirituel mystisisme, dyrker kommunisterne en social mystisisme. De er også overtroiske, og mange af dem er bestemt heller ikke så overbevist ateistiske som jeg er. Kineserne har f.eks forbudt Dalai lama at blive genfødt uden for kina. HAha latterligt :-) Den eneste måde man kan tolke det er, ja vi tror ikke rigtigt på genfødsel, men hvis det nu er rigtigt aligevel, må vi hellere sikre os at vi kan have kontrol med ham lama gutten der. Hehe, det sku humor :-) .

Ja tag at tjekke videoerne. Særligt den med Yaron brook er god, og han er nok også den mest passionerede anti kommunist.

Jeg vil gerne debattere hvad der er galt med religion eller hvad der er galt med kommunisme, fordi der faktisk er noget at debattere. Men at debattere det blotte fravær af en religion, kan jeg ikke se formålet i. Det er som at debattere hvad det indebærer at man ikke samler på frimærker. Det ret nemt - Ingenting. Det eneste vi indtil videre er kommet frem til, er at der er noget galt med kommunisme, det kan de fleste normale mennesker blive enige om, om de så er religiøse eller ej. Jeg er som sådan slet ikke interesseret i hvad religiøse mener og tror på, med mindre det negativt påvirker andre, som f.eks i form af terrorisme, vold mod abortlæger, stening af kvinder, begrænsning af ytringsfriheden osv. De religiøse der kan lade andre leve i fred som de vil, er slet ikke nogen jeg gør mig nogen tanker omkring. Så kan jeg så synes det er tåbeligt at sidde og bede til en usynlig mand i himlen, men det ikke rigtigt noget der kommer mig ved eller påvirker mit liv.
Ulrik Smed
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Dato: 12/12 2012 11:20

@Linse

Tror du har fat i noget der. Men jeg tror også mange forveksler håb og tro. Det de siger de tror på er i virkeligheden noget de håber på. :)
Earthling
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Dato: 13/12 2012 11:12 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 12:48

Jeff
I am perfectly aware of how the activation of cults plays a role in places like North Korea. Of course the only reason that can happen is because of the vacuum which is atheism... I believe it was G.K. Chesterton who said that when men stop believing in God, they will believe in anything ;)

I think that if YOU go into it, it will find that for a great part of history, the great belief/unbelief schism did not exist. In most cases, politics, greed, struggles for power and religion were intermingled, so the very basis of your "thought experiment" is false. Secondly, YOU will find that modern, well informed historians are on record as saying that the last century (1900-1999) was the bloodiest century of all time and that the amount of killing and destruction far exceeds all the preceeding centuries. Much of the destruction went on in godless regimes.

Religious Violence: Myth or Global Reality?



Sins of Omission: "What "religion and violence" arguments ignore
http://www.jesusradicals.com/wp-content/uploads/sins-of-omission.pdf

The Myth of Religious Violence: Secular Ideology and the Roots of Modern Conflict
http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Religious-Violence-Ideology-Conflict/dp/0195385047


I am not entertaining your "thought experiment" for a number of reasons. Firstly, the topic here is, "Hvad er der galt med ateisme?" It´s not about religion, unless you want to claim atheism as a religion! Secondly, I am not interested in entertaining your religion/atheism schism because I consider the whole proposition unhelpful and false. The victims of evil, injustice and destruction are not just namelss numbers in a thought experiment. They are people who suffered, often brutally, at the hands of oppressors. I will not diminish their memory by using their sufffering and deaths as cheap point-scoring material. As far as I´m concerned, oppression in any form is unexceptable, be it carried out by believers or athiests, and as such it should be uncovered and resisted. It would be far more fitting if certain atheists honestly examined their own back yard, instead of focussing solely on the sins of others...

Finally, I will not entertain your "thought experiment" because I think it is as fruitless to lump all atheism together as it is to lump all religion together. I do not equate you (by association of atheism) with Korean atheist marxists. I will not have you equate me (by association of religion) with the Taliban! It is revealing that you generally define religion in the broadest terms possible, while seeking to define atheism as narrowly as possible. It serves your very well, but it is not honest. Again, I also think any "thought experiment" is invalid and false as long as any possible good brought about by belief/disbelief is not part of the equation.

Personally, I find the evasion, denial, and attempts at diversion from the topic of the thread quite telling.


Finally, you act as if there are all these individuals going around actively proclaiming "atheism" 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I would remind you that there are over 400,000 priests in the Roman Catholic church alone. I don't think I need to continue anymore to demonstrate how utterly absurdly out of proportion any claims are about the "evangalizing of atheism". Ludicrous...

I make no such suggestion. In the example I gave above of the "League of Militant Atheism", I have no doubt that total dedication is demanded. Funnily enough, reading the description of their agenda and their methods actually reminded me of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and their propaganda machines - minus the active supression! However, I have no doubt that the many atheists do not spend 24/7 promoting atheism. I do suspect that many never actually check out the myths and inaccurate, if not false, claims being made by other athiests about religion.

Yes, there may well be 400,000 priests in the Catholic Church. That is hardly surprising, given that (a) the Mass and the Sacraments are pivotal in the Catholic faith, and (b) that there are over 1 BILLION Catholics in the world. In other words, a good deal of their time and energy goes to serving fellow Catholics. More than that, I am not going to say because again it is irrelevant to the topic of this thread.


Earthling
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Dato: 13/12 2012 11:34 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 12:46

I think Linse has a point with regard to atheism "hvis det nærmest gør folk til nihilister og apatiske og får dem til at miste håbet, fordi alt virker meningsløst".

Menadian also had a similar point earlier on, "ateisme gør det ikke lige så let at styre et samfund. Desuden tror jeg der er mange, der ikke kan bære tanken om manglende mening med livet og får problemer med det."

So now we have the danger of nihilism, apathy, despair, relativism and the possibility of anarchy - or the opposite, totalitarianism! Very interesting ;)

It seems that Denmark is one of the most liberal societies in the world (note: liberal doesn´t necessarily mean free!) and has one of the highest standards of living... Yet, it also has one of the highest rates of depression in the world. I also find that interesting...





Jeff
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Denne bruger har i år '14 doneret penge til at holde Vegetarkontakt.dk kørende.
Dato: 13/12 2012 12:56

Just treat the thought experiment as rhetorical. I think we all know what any person seeking to minimize suffering would choose.

I'm interested in the data. Show us just one modern day case of someone doing great harm by following an explicit commandment related to atheism. Just one.

Scour the Web with Google, whatever it takes.


Earthling
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Dato: 13/12 2012 17:21 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 19:08

Rhetorical... You mean you think you know the answer before you ask...

Just one modern day case? Well, seeing as you insist... (I´m sure you´ll be sorry you asked)

Given that I already identified a link between atheism and some atheist ideologies in my last comment to John
Atheism disbelieves or argues against (depending on the type of atheism) the possibility that man is made in the image of God. It also disbelieves or argues against (depending on the type of atheism) the possibility of a higher moral order and future accountability. It is not pleasant to admit it but this lies at the very heart of what these atheistic marxists believed: that man, the individual, was of no account and that they were accountable to no one but themselves. It enabled them to completely disregard the individual and to carry out the greatest attrocities against him/her in pursuit of their atheistic goals.

I think this modern day example qualifies as an answer to your rhetoric... although naturally, I half-expect you will deny it has anything to do with athiesm despite the fact that we are talking about a repressive atheistic ideology in a country with a government run by athiest marxists/communists.


One Child Policy - China
Forced abortion and the insidious infrastructure of coercion necessary to enforce China’s One Child Policy do not just affect women. They affect everyone in China. The coercive enforcement of China’s One Child Policy is the biggest human rights violation on earth today – a bloody stranglehold on 1.3 billion people. It must end now. We call upon President Xi Jinping to give hope to the suffering people of China by ending these barbaric practices as his first and most lasting legacy.

http://www.womensrightswithoutfrontiers.org/blog/?p=877
http://www.womensrightswithoutfrontiers.org/blog/?p=839



The coercive enforcement of China’s cruel and barbaric One Child Policy causes more violence towards women and girls than any other official policy on earth. It is China’s war against women and girls. Women are forcibly aborted up to the ninth month of pregnancy. Forced abortion is not a choice. It is systematic, institutionalized violence against women, official government rape; and it continues to this day.

http://www.womensrightswithoutfrontiers.org/blog/?p=877


The draconian campaign that I witnessed began by ordering young mothers to have abortions, arresting them when they refused, and incarcerating them under conditions of extreme psychological pressure. Those who still refused were physically dragged into the local medical clinic, where they were held down on the operating table while they were aborted and sterilised. Many of these women were in the third trimester of pregnancy. Indeed, some were already in labour.

The forced abortions so poignantly described by Yan Li (Sept 1, p 804)2 are not just an aberration “of recent years”, in other words, but have rather been an integral part of the enforcement mechanism of the policy since its inception.

China's one-child policy itself leads to forced abortions
http://www.pop.org/content/chinas-one-child-policy-itself-leads-forced-abortions


See also: http://www.vegetarkontakt.dk/?-the-three-deadliest-words-in-the-world=131020


PS: I didn´t have to scour anything. This is usually common knowledge amongst educated people.



Ka-ching
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Område: Nordjylland
Dato: 13/12 2012 17:54 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 18:41

Earthling
ateister deler ikke en bestemt ideologi! Så at kalde en ideologi for ateistisk er noget forbandet sludder! Ateister kan godt tro på forskellige ideologier og gøre dumme ting på grund af det de tror på, men ideologierne er ikke ateistiske og derfor er der ikke et link mellem deres ateisme og det de gør! Det er mellem ideologien og de handlinger folk udfører, at der er et link. Kineserne slår ikke små børn ihjel på grund af det de ikke tror på. de slår små børn ihjel, fordi de af en eller anden grund tror, at det er en god ide at gøre det. det er troen der er problemet!
Earthling
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Dato: 13/12 2012 19:14 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 19:30

Ka-ching,
I suggest you (re)read all my comments and links before coming back with such a reactionary response.

I am not talking about all atheists. I am giving a response to Jeff when he askes for one modern case.

By the way, do or do atheists disbelieve or argues against (depending on the type of atheism) the possibility that man is made in the image of God?

Do atheists also disbelieves or argues against (depending on the type of atheism) the possibility of a higher moral order and future accountability?

Do atheist marxists and communists believe that man, the individual, is of no account and that they are accountable to no one but themselves?
Ka-ching
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Dato: 13/12 2012 19:23 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 19:34

Jeff skrev
I'm interested in the data. Show us just one modern day case of someone doing great harm by following an explicit commandment related to atheism. Just one.

Og det bedste eksempel Earthling kunne give var Kina der på grund af tro slår små børn ihjel.

LOL :D :D :D

hvad er linket mellem ateisme og barnemord?
Ka-ching
Forum-indlæg: 83
Område: Nordjylland
Dato: 13/12 2012 19:58 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 20:00

Earthling
prøv at forestille dig at alle de der slemme marxister og kommunister, som har slået mennesker ihjel kun var ateister. Tror du at de ateister uden at tro på ideologier som marxisme og kommunisme ville have udført de samme ondskabsfulde handlinger? Hvis svaret er nej, så må konklusionen være at det ikke er ateismen, men den ideologi de har troet på der er noget galt med.
Earthling
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Dato: 13/12 2012 19:59 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 22:40

Ka-ching,
You actually suggested yourself in an earlier comment that atheism and commmunism might be a dangerous cocktail.

Jeff can search out the rest of the data himself. He has the necessary contacts and links above.

And this happens because of an explicit command called ONE CHILD POLICY which attacks the basic dignity of men, women and children, not just in one case but in millions of cases.

If you think that´s funny, it says a great deal about you.

Ka-ching
Forum-indlæg: 83
Område: Nordjylland
Dato: 13/12 2012 20:10 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 22:06

Et barns politikken er ikke et ateistisk bud. At det er ateister der har lavet politikken betyder ikke, at den har noget som helst med ateisme at gøre. Der eksisterer ikke ateistiske bud, og der eksisterer ikke ateistiske ideologier. Ateisme er udelukkende fraværet af en tro på guder. Intet andet! Fraværet af en tro på noget er ikke nok til at få mennesker til at udføre hverken gode eller onde handlinger, så det er umuligt at finde en ateist der på grund af sin ateisme har gjort noget godt eller ondt. Det er altid en tro på et eller andet der får folk til at handle som de gør.

Atheism disbelieves or argues against (depending on the type of atheism) the possibility that man is made in the image of God. It also disbelieves or argues against (depending on the type of atheism) the possibility of a higher moral order and future accountability. It is not pleasant to admit it but this lies at the very heart of what these atheistic marxists believed: that man, the individual, was of no account and that they were accountable to no one but themselves. It enabled them to completely disregard the individual and to carry out the greatest attrocities against him/her in pursuit of their atheistic goals.
Det er måske korrekt at fraværet af troen på en gud har gjort dem i stand til at udføre frygtelige handlinger, men det er jo ikke fraværet af tro der har fået dem til at handle som de gjorde. deres ugerninger ville ikke være sket uden en kommunistisk/marxistisk ideologi og derfor er det ikke ateismen der er noget galt med. Det du har gjort er at du har fundet nogle eksempler på ateister der har gjort noget forkert, men du har ikke været i stand til at sandsynliggøre et link mellem deres ateisme og deres handlinger, på samme måde som man kan sandsynliggøre, at der er et link mellem fx jøders tro og deres manglende forhud.
Earthling
Forum-indlæg: 1079
Område: KBH
Dato: 13/12 2012 22:51 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 23:04

Ka-ching
Like I said, (re)read ALL my comments and links on the thread. You´ll find I have already responded to what you´re saying. I´m not wasting more time on it with you.
Ka-ching
Forum-indlæg: 83
Område: Nordjylland
Dato: 13/12 2012 23:29 | Indlæg redigeret den: 13/12 2012 23:38

Earthling
der er grænser for hvor meget bullshit jeg er villig til at læse og jeg vil bestemt ikke læse det 2 gange! Det burde være nok at læse det gylle du lukker ud en gang. Fraværet af tro er ikke nok til at motivere folk til at gøre noget, så lad venligst være med at give ateismen skylden for de forfærdeligheder der sker i verden!!! Det er nemt at finde eksempler på ateister der har gjort andre fortræd, men du har ikke på noget tidspunkt sandsynliggjort at der er et link mellem ateisme(fraværet af tro) og de ting der er sket.

Hvis du vil overbevise mig om at der er noget galt med ateisme, så prøv at nævne en ateist der ikke har været tilhænger af kommunisme eller andre ideologier, som på grund af sin ateisme har gjort andre fortræd. Eller det ville også være nok hvis du kan argumentere for hvordan fraværet af tro kan motivere en til at gøre noget som helst hvad enten det er godt, ondt eller neutralt. Før du kan en af de ting kan jeg ikke se nogen rationel grund til at tro på dit bullshit om at der skulle være et link mellem fx barnemord og ateisme.
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